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Very nice web site with historical importance for the present & future of this country.
I am the great grandson of Jacob Stephenson Boreman, the federal judge, appointed by Ullyses S. Grant, President of the United States, who presided over the trial of John Doyle Lee (as well as the subsequent and equally sensational Donner Party trial in Nevada). A lawyerlike my grandfather and his son, Gilbert F. Boreman, I weep for the victims of the Mormon intolerance at Mountain Meadows, and will remember my great-grandfather`s chargin that only the reprehennsible but unfortunate Lee could be legally held accountable for the massacre. Clearly, Brigham Young and his friends escaped legal judgement, but cannnot escape the judgement of history. I pray that some day Brigham Young University will be renamed without the name of the perpetrator. Fancher Memorial University has a nice ring to it. S. Boreman, Esq.
Found your webpage while researching the Old Spanish Trial which I live within a couple of miles from where it crosses the Utah and Colorado state line East of Monticello at Summit Point Utah.
Great job on the site. Very helpful and informative. My prayers to and for all. Mark Adkins
it makes me sick to to read about what they did to all those innocent people, especially the children! the mormons who did this crime, i hope that they are in hell. the truth about the mormons truly is shown here!!
I'm the descendent of John Doyle Lee and Rachel Woolsey. I've just started researching all about John Doyle Lee and believe that there is no doubt that he acted upon orders of his superiors. The fact that he was the ONLY person arrested and convicted of this crime is unbelievable to modern day people but perhaps quite common in Utah at that time. A scapegoat was needed to quelch the outburst and quiet the exposure of the church and it's other leaders. It's truly a terrible thing for all involved.
It was a solemn experience to stand above this beautiful place and contemplate what happened here in 1857. I was struck by how a religion that preaches love can get so far off track at times. I was also mindful of what happens when people give up their right to independent thought and follow leaders regardless of the morality of their instructions. Thank you for the monument.
I have always felt that the mountain meadow massacre was fated by Young, at least in sprite. Until the Mormons recognizes Brigham Young ordered by what ever mean, the course of butchery that fated the men, women and children of the emigrant train, I can only look upon their cult religion with contempt.
When I was a young Boy Scout I hiked on down the Old Spaniard Trail and we actually camped right in the Mountain Meadows right next to where the massacre happened, although I never could get a clear picture of what happened, I being a Mormon and knowing that there are some few bad eggs among us just hope for the best that the Mormons during that time were faithful and that all the hubbub was just a particle of the negative left-wing conspiracy just like what has happened to the Mormons since day one. I feel for both sides and just hope we can all love one another for we all are brothers and sisters no matter what comes between us.
Last weekend I attended the annual meeting of the Mountain Meadows Association in St. George UT. I was surprised at how few people were in attendance. This is a great opportunity to come together and to learn more about the tragic event and also to make friends with some great people. I was very impressed with the way Terry Fancher conducted the meetings and was delighted to share ancestral stories with several there.
This should be a National Historical Site. My heart bleeds.
Wheni hered about this massacre i thought nothing of it but as i got more into details about how it happened to mormons, i thought people have to many thigs against mormons and it became my favorite utah histoy story!well i had just moved to utah at the time,and a history fair was coming up so i decided to do it on my favorite story and won 2nd place in region! im now 23 and was 13 then it changed my life forever when i got up to present my project i felt the spiret more than i have ever felt inmy life, it overwelmed melove alwase Tiffany Breann Harris
very good............
Thank you for this website. I have been doing some geneology work on my father's family and have found that Joel D. Mitchell and Charley R. Mitchell are relatives of mine. I would be interested in corresponding with other Mitchells out there. I hope to one day be able to visit this beautiful memorial.
Thank you to all who are involved in telling part ofthe history of my family. i'am looking forward to visiting the monument in the future.
Have been there, before and after, its different now, the feeling.
my fancher family is the colonial fanchers from Conn. I would like to know the connection to the Meadows tragedy. A few years ago, my car broke down in AZ. the tow truck driver who helped me said he was related to a minister in this traveling Calif. bound group. I would like to get in touch with this gentleman ......so if you (by the hand of God) happen to read this, please contact me. Cindy in NY clstafford@clarityconnect.com Also. any genealogy support would be welcomed. thanks the blood cries from the earth pray for the forgiveness.
I was researching to see if any descendants of Nealy Butler of Carroll County was envolved. Specifically son Martin who I have been unable to locate. Very interesting reading.
I wish that everyone could follow the instructions for the guestbook and not use this as a public forum to bash. It would make this site more enjoyable.
when will the morman church apologize for what they did, what a terrorist act, what church would let that happen
As an addendum to my last post, my mother said that our family name in relation to this was either Tripp or McTripp. I noticed that these names are absent from the list of casualties. Other names down the line that may help in this are Ruggles and Fields, either from Oklahoma, Kansas, or California (or any other western state...much research left to do!). Again, I am only trying to establish a link, if one exists.
I was told by my mother many years ago that we have ancestors involved in this incident. I was merely researching this information and have been completely drawn into the further study of this atrocity, going well beyond beyond family names. Any geneological information leading to present day that either links me or separates me from this incident is appreciated.
I and my partner are Black and Asian Americans and we are Jewish. We watched the History Channel and learned about this. It deeply moved us that we will be blogging about it and including it in our Jewish group called Our Journey Home on yahoo groups. It is similar to what occurred to the ancient Jews by Amalek and his followers. It is also similar to the attacks my Cherokee and Black ancestors faced and the Filipino side of our families. Your story should be told in every class room and commnity in the world. We honor your ancestors deaths and we pray that others will learn from it. Sincerely Yours. John Crawley and Linda Radtke Faribault,Minnesota USA
I watched a show on the massacre on the history channel recently and I was saddened deeply by what happened to these people. I was very interested in who was killed and who survived and your site showed me this. This was an awful crime committed and I am so sorry for the families of those who died. My heart especially goes out to the children. Its amazing that something that happened over 100 years ago can still make such an impact today. As far as I know I am not related but I haven't looked through the geneology yet. Thank you for sharing the information with me.
I am decendents of Mormons in Southern Utah- Salina area and of Family in arkansas. I live in Utah
How do we get so wrapped up in a religion that it seems to be the natural thing to do...killing someone who does not believe as we do. How truly close is religion to hatred.
I, too, saw History Channel program on this event and wanted to find out more about it. I do not want to judge LDS Church for their part in this massacre, but if they want to clear the air, then the church archives should be opened up. I have visited Navoo, Illinois historic site, and read additional accounts of Mormom persecution in the 1800's, but it still should not be used as an excuse for what happened at Mountain Meadows.
The History Channel documentary of this incident was alarming but enlightening. Thank you, family and/or historian, for your courage to expose, explain and interpret the events. As an independent thinking American, your story gives me strength to seek the truth in all things. I will do my best to remember. I will do my best to see history does not repeat. I will ask more questions.
Just curious of an event I don't ever remember hearing about until I saw it on the history channel.
Great site. Keep up the good work! Ive noticed alot of "pro" and "con" LDS sentiment throughout the years about the actuall involvement of the church. For the sake of the one's lost at the site, lets all remember..Time heals all wounds. I beleive the time has come to stand together and keep their namesake alive, through this monument association. Again...Great Job!
A very nice site keep it up
Blood of the Prophets Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows by Will Bagley Comments & interview by the author. http://www.salamandersociety.com/interviews/willbagley/
I have read all of the comments that you have received in the last few years. The slant has been on the side of the Fancher Party. What a shame that so much of the history of this tragic event has been ignored. My great great grandfather, James Holt Haslam, will long be remembered for his ride to Salt Lake City to get the advice from the Prophet Brigham Young. President Young told Issac Haight to make certain that the Fancher party was allowed to go on their way unmolested. The Mormons were to provision the party so that their overland trip to San Bernardino would be benefitted. I find that people who are quick to blame the Mormon Church for their involvement, never remember the massacres that occurred in Davis County, Missouri or Nauvoo, Illinois. What about "Hauns Mill". We can forget that one because it got rid of the vermin. The Church of Jesus Christ will always be blamed for one thing or another. Apostates can leave the Church but cannot leave the Church alone. They will continue to use poorly researched history to further their aims. The MMM is just one such event that they use to further justify their apostate behavior. James Holt Haslam, after having been deposed on two separate occassions, stuck to his original account. Tears came to his eyes as Isaac Haight read the message from Brigham Young. "It is too late" he said. President Haight broke down and sobbed like a child. How and why it happened I cannot venture to know. I know that I will learn the truth in future readings of the historical accounts. I am looking for better research to uncover more of the truth of this tragic event. So far I have not found that research. Most of what I have read is slanted, poorly researched, and unverified in my opinion. Thank you.
We visited the site in late September 2005. Thanks to this site it made our trip more meaningful. An American indian and his wife in a Cadallac followed us into the monument area. He pretended at first to not know much about the site and asked me about it. He then proceeded to talk about how the settlers in the wagon train were poisining the water and how Lee was a hero. It was a very strange moment that made our visit the more memorable in a very strange way.
It is very sad the Mormon's cannot be honest in the killing of so many American's. Forgiveness may lie in how one treats another however, it appears the treatment is not well, so I am not so sure about forgivness. With a beautiful momument in the honor of Lee paved in a lovely brick walkway in Cedar City a honor for the memory of a man who took part in a horrible killing of men women and children, is a slap in the face. It is like giving a beautiful momument to Hitler, and the countless killed by him only a dusty path. It is very sad, the views experess in reading the Major's report on Mountain Meadows, that the Mormon people felt and had been taught it is/was correct to kill and take the richs and goods of 'gentiles', and not see the beast in themsleves. The mass killing of Americans during Mountain Meadows may be second to the OK killing from a man associated to the Michigan Milita, the Michigan Miltia who was once also headed by a Mormon.
Daughter-in-law to Virginia Lee Sylvester - Great Granddaughter to John D. and Agatha Lee. Watch for the forthcoming "The Meadows" - Historic Novel written by LaVell and Dixie Hinton-Sylvester; the story of one woman on the Fancher Train.
My mother was a Lee. Great grand dougter of John D. Lee.
My mother was a Lee. Great grand dougter of John D. Lee.
My family was part of the wagon train, but actually left the group in northern Utah and went over Donner pass.
I came upon this cite unexpectedly and after reading many of the comments, I couldn't help but cry. It was indeed a tragedy, that day that has obviously impacted so many lives...but the thing that really made me cry was the hatred I felt as I read. Hate against so many people...many LDS people who had nothing to do with the massacre. I know many Mormons and know that they hold no hatred against the decendents from Missouri or Illinois... If you have so much hatred, who are you really hurting? Yourself. The people involved in the 'extermination' of Mormons or the people involved in the Mountain Meadow Massacre's are dead and will meet their judgement...it is not our job to see revenge or justice done on the heads of their children's children.
I have just finished my involvement on a feature film due in theatres next year about this event. Before this I had no knowledge of this story, while we filmed the scenes I was involved with I felt a great deal of horror for those people who lived the actual events even though I was only acting as one of the wagon train men, it was because of this that I began to educate myself on the facts surrounding the "Mountain Meadows Masacre". My heart goes out to all those families that were involved,( on both sides) and I hope that the publicity that will come when this movie is released will help to find answers and most importantly heal all involved. Sincerely Mitch Morgan
There has been a story passed down in the family that my great-great grandmother, Mary Jane Fielding-Spencer was approx 3 months old at the time of the massacre. She was raised by the Fielding Family, whom I believe lived in Utah to begin with, and then relocated to Webber Canyon, near Mancos, Colorado. We have found no geneology to either prove or disprove the theory, other than Mary Jane did not resemble the rest of the Fielding family. Any info on the matter would be wonderful. Thank you for such an informative web site!
I have heard stories from my grand mother(a grand daughter of John) who grew up in Panguich, Ut. Her name is Manetta (Prince) Henrie. There is considerable differences between the families version and the Churches stance or apparent denials. Wouldn't it be nice to know all the facts.
An excellent site and well designed for those searching for family members
I really enjoy history.especially western U.S.
would like to corspond with any of the black fanchers
The "COVER-UP" of the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The "COVER-UP"! Brevet Major J. H. Carleton, U.S.A. http://www.mtn-meadows-assoc.com/Carelton/maj.htm
Nice website. Here in West Virginia, we have plenty of our own massacres and wars to tell about, and our state has also been unfairly tarred by the ignorant who presume they are better than "mountain folk." I have a word for you who "want the Mormons to come clean" about Brigham Young ordering the slaughter. Just how will they do that? Is there any witness who can say he did? The man who carried his order to leave the Fancher party alone said Young was innocent, and that he lied about what Brigham had said to him. Since we can't scour Brigham's hard drive or ISP for the deleted memo, I'd like to know which of these folks that are convinced Young ordered this atrocity where they got their proof--and just how they think the Mormons of today can clear the question up by saying 'yea' or 'nay.' The evidence is simply not there, no matter what today's Mormons want to cop to. In the absence of any evidence in either direction, is the fact that the messenger admitted he lied about Young's order to 'kill all old enough to talk' evidence on its face that in fact he told the truth--that Young did indeed order the killings? When was he lying and when was he telling the truth? Your witness is a liar, and you have no other sources. Therefore, I must conclude that your assumption that Brigham Young is to blame and, by extension, that all Mormons have blood on their hands, says more about the place you're coming from than it does about the Mormons. I've known quite a few of them in my time, and the ones who go to church and believe in it strike me as some of the most honorable folks I've ever met, right up there with some of the most deluded but honorable Catholics. Okay, maybe not necessarily deluded. But their religion is at least as weird as the Mormons. I can understand a group that has suffered, and suffered, and suffered at the hands of others, going into a mass hysteria when some of those others come passing through, one famously bragging about holding the gun that killed old Joe Smith. I don't presume to call the residents of Salem, Massachusetts superstitious murderers because their ancestors got whipped into a witch-hanging frenzy. Humans do weird things like that quite often, but only sometimes do they wind up having the kind of tragic consequences seen at Mountain Meadows. Not long after Mountain Meadows, my ancestors killed an awful lot of McCoys for reasons real and imagined. The war between our families simmered for years, but could not have erupted in so much bloodshed if not for the New York Times and some Kentucky papers which kept the pot boiling and ill will at a fever pitch. We and the McCoys have made our peace with each other now. It looks as though the Mormons and the Fancher party descendants are making theirs. But there are quite a few Mormon-haters out there who, like hillbilly haters, won't let it go because they have their own reasons. Maybe they just need to feel superior to somebody. Nursing a grudge never helped anybody, just ask my grandpa. May the villains of this story be separated from the victims, and may God almighty be the judge of who's who.
Salt Lake Tribune article of today's date on the upcoming Hollywood movie: http://sltrib.com/utah/ci_2978208
"A PORTRAIT OF INNOCENCE" http://www.utlm.org/images/mountainmeadows/mountainmeadowsp46thumb.jpg
I am the great, great, great grandson of John Doyle Lee. This was a sad episode from the history of the settling of the west. I have studied as much as I have found about the event and I must admit that there are too many versions in existence. Too many documents and histories of John D. Lee have appeared over the years also. If anyone reads the diaries of John D. Lee that still exist, they would see that many of the supposed records and letters from John D. Lee are fraudulent or were written by someone else. John had a very definite way of writing and spelling that does not show up in many of the supposed documents from John. Throughout his whole life, nothing came even remotely close to what he was accused of doing at the massacre. He has a very honorable life history that is well documented and shows what an honorable and great leader he was. Southern Utah and Northern Arizona would not be what they are today without John D. Lee and the others that helped tame the wilderness there. What actually happened during the week of the massacre will not be known in this life. What we have heard and read of what happened there has been distorted and twisted too much to find the truth. The truth died along with all those who were there, including the participants and the victims. It became a sad tragedy for many that cannot be lessened by conjecturing what really happened. Who was to blame? God knows and will judge accordingly. Many injustices happened in the western movement of our country in the 1800's. The victims included wagon train members from Arkansas, Indians, soldiers, Mormons, Chinese etc. If we look back, there are not many areas of the country that do not have some horrible events that took place during the 1800's. The week at Mountain Meadows is just a part of a very long list. May God bless those who suffered or died there and may we look at it blamelessly so that we can stand before God with a clear slate of this event when we are judged.
Mountain Meadows movie being filmed: "September Dawn" http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600158734,00.html
I had never heard of the massacre before a friend told me about it. We will be visiting Utah in September and my friend wants to make a visit to the site. Astonishing story!
The descendants of the Mountain Meadows Massacre will be holding a meeting in Harrison, Arkansas on September 10. This is public knowledge and if any descendants are interested in knowing more about the meeting, please contact me by e-mail. We would be happy to hear from any of the descendants of the familes that were on the wagon train. Cheri Baker Walker GGGreanddaughter Capt. John T. Baker
The flag needs to be replaced.
I am trying to learn more about this tragic event as I research my family history in an attempt to record my Granmothers memoirs. Thank you
I am a direct decendent of John Fancher, who was buried in Poundridge, New York in Feb of 1779. He is said to be the start of the family in America, as I'm sure all of the Fanchers know. My maternal Grandmother's maiden name was Fancher. I have been interested in this event in history ever since I read the "Rounders" by Mark Twain when I was a boy.
Thnak you for your site adn teh information you give.
"Tragedy at Mountain Meadows"-- --Richard Turley-- --Glen Leonard-- --Ronald Walker-- --Church to Produce Book on Massacre-- --Saturday, May 18, 2002-- --By Peggy Fletcher Stack-- "A trio of LDS Church historians is producing what they believe will be the definitive account of the infamous Mountain Meadows Massacre in which 120 men, women and children from Arkansas were murdered by Mormon settlers and their American Indian accomplices as they passed through Utah. Their book, Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, scheduled to be published next year by Oxford University Press, was announced Friday at a packed session of the Mormon History Association in Tucson, Ariz. It will join an array of new interpretations of the 1857 massacre, which took place just outside of present-day Cedar City and is seen by many as the darkest chapter in Latter-day Saint's history." http://2thinkforums.org/anyboard/archive/6639.html
as reference to the past post regarding the book Will Bagley and Blood of the Prophets A controversial book, Blood of the Prophets by Will Bagley, has received a lot of attention for claiming to prove that Brigham Young was reponsible for the massacre. However, his approach is rather deceptive. For details, see Robert D. Crockett, "A Trial Lawyer Reviews Will Bagley's Blood of the Prophets," FARMS Review of Books, Vol. 15, No. 2, 2003, pp. 199-254 (available online for FARMS subscribers). As Daniel C. Peterson wrote in his "Editor's Introduction" to FARMS Review of Books, Vol. 15, No. 2, 2003, pp. ix-lxii: Will Bagley's Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows, for example, has received media attention and kudos out of all proportion to its merit as history and on the basis of little or no significant new evidence. In their highly critical review of Blood of the Prophets published in a recent number of Mormon Historical Studies, W. Paul Reeve and Ardis E. Parshall--respectively a professor of history at Southern Virginia University and an experienced independent researcher based in Utah Valley--acknowledge that the book has some good qualities, but find those seriously outweighed by its defects. [W. Paul Reeve and Ardis E. Parshall, Mormon Historical Studies 4/1 (2003): 149-157.] Bagley's research is extensive and takes advantage of sources not known to Juanita Brooks. His handling of those sources, however, is problematic and at times is manipulated to fit his thesis, and both his prejudices and biases quickly become apparent. Bagley is intent upon implicating Brigham Young in the massacre. To do so, he repaints nineteenth-century Utah with blood. . . . Bagley is a superb storyteller. Yet the manner in which he constructs his story is designed to reinforce the notion that nineteenth-century Utah was a corrupt cauldron of blood, vice, and hypocrisy. Bagley's prejudices and unexamined assumptions permeate the narrative. In countless places, Bagley labels Mormons and anyone with a kind word for them as ridiculous or worthy of dismissal. [Ibid., 150.] "In some cases," they say, "Bagley substitutes unsubstantiated gossip for evidence." [Ibid., 154.] They excoriate him, moreover, for his "manipulation of information" and for announcing conclusions that "go well beyond his evidence." Worse, at a very crucial point in his argument, Bagley has misrepresented the contents of a vital document, an inexcusable act that Reeve and Parshall identify as "a direct violation of the American Historical Association's Statement on Standards of Professional Conduct." [Ibid., 152.] On Bagley's truly spectacular distortion of a piece of evidence that is fundamental to his argument, see also Lawrence Coates's review of Blood of the Prophets, by Will Bagley, BYU Studies 41/1 (2003): 153-158. Two other valuable reviews of Bagley's book, by Paul H. Peterson and Thomas G. Alexander, accompany that of Coates in the same number of BYU Studies, at pp. 159-166 and 167-174, respectively.] "Perhaps the real message in Blood of the Prophets," they suggest, is that considering Bagley's extensive research, he could come up with no better evidence than Dimick Huntington's journal to link "Young to facilitating the murders." And to make even that unsustainable claim, he had to put a new word into Huntington's pen. [Reeve and Parshall, 156.] "Even though Bagley claims to be aware of 'the basic rules of the craft of history,'" Reeve and Parshall report, "he consistently violates them in Blood of the Prophets. As a result, Juanita Brooks' The Mountain Meadows Massacre remains the most definitive and balanced account to date." [Ibid., p. 149.] Sadly, some Mormons have turned to violence at various times, but as with other sins, this has been clearly contrary to the teachings of the Church and to the core of "Mormon culture."
"THE FORGIVEN" 'On 20 April 1961 Lee was restored to membership in the Mormon Church.' http://www.onlineutah.com/historylee.shtml "For more than a hundred years, the families of John D. Lee have borne the opprobrium of the massacre alone. For that reason, they have welcomed every effort to probe the question; certainly no truth could be worse than the stories to which they were subjected. Now they have special cause to rejoice, for on April 20, 1961, the First Presidency and the Council of Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints met in joint council, and: 'It was the action of the Council after considering all the facts available that authorization be given for the reinstatement to membership and former blessings [temple marriages] to John D. Lee.' Word of this was sent out to members of the family, and on May 8 and 9, the necessary ordinances were performed in the Salt Lake Temple. A complete record is in the files of the Latter-day Saints Genealogical Society." (Mountain Meadows Massacre, p. 223) "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Brevet Major J. H. Carleton, U.S.A.
Reply to post of 8/4/05. Restitution and reparations from the Church to the decendants of those lost in the massacre? The church as an ongoing accomplice in murder and theft? Perhaps anyone who has suffered loss of life, property or freedom, should be justly compensated for the loss. Therefore, by that measurement, the states of Ohio, Illinois and Missouri should pay the Latter-Day Saints reparations and restitution for the wholesale theft of property, murder of men, women and children, the countless rapes that were committed against Mormon women etc. Let's not stop there, let's clean the slate of any and all long standing "debts" owed to others for injuries and wrongs suffered. Sherman's march to the sea. All the citizens of Georgia and the Carolina's should be compensated, as should the decendants of the African-American slaves, Native-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, Irish Catholics, Chinese workers, and any other group that has suffered any indignity or loss of life or property at the hands of others or the government. However, there are some difficult questions that should be answered. First, how do we quantify the cost of a human life? Second, for the property, do we use 19th century valuation, or 21st century with compounded interest? Third, Do we hold the decendants of any perpertrator, however innocent said decendants may be, liable for the crimes of their progenitors? Mormons are so often branded as having a "victim" mentality for what occured to them in the afore-mentioned states. Of course, the loss of life they suffered, with the exception of the incessant mob attacks and Hauns Mill, did not come in one fell moment as it did for the victims at the meadows. But please, if you will, remember the babies buried in makeshift tents in the dead of winter, the countless victims of cholera, diptheria, dysentary, exposure to the elements and starvation who died on the Mormon trail westward. A trail started because there were those who felt that Mormons were tantamount to lice, and should be driven from their homes at gunpoint. Yes, if your call for justice encompasses all who suffered in the 19th century, then I at least in spirit support your somewhat untenable position. If however, as I suspect it to be, it is only to turn ones eye to the wrongs committed by the Mormons and not upon those committed upon them, then you merely play the hypocrite in the ongoing drama of "this history you married into."
I married into this portion of United States history without ever having heard of the Mountain Meadows Massacre. As I visited the memorial site with my twenty year old son, I could not help but feel that the memorial was inadequate. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints needs to stop being an ongoing accomplice in murder and theft. It need to make restitution, reparations, before reconciliation can take place. To honor John Doyle Lee is tantamount to the Germans erecting a statue to Adolf Eichmann.
I married into this portion of United States history without ever having heard of the Mountain Meadows Massacre. As I visited the memorial site with my twenty year old son, I could not help but feel that the memorial was inadequate. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints needs to stop being an ongoing accomplice in murder and theft. It need to make restitution, reparations, before reconciliation can take place. To honor John Doyle Lee is tantamount to the Germans erecting a statue to Adolf Eichmann.
Please accept my condolences. I am saddened by the events, and wish to leave best wishes for the surviving families who would put this behind them.
I love the music, I would love to get acopy of it . its perfect for the occasion. this site has opened my eyes. I have been checking this out for a while now. that was a very sad and terrible thing that happened to innocent people. I"m trying to find the name of all the victums and ages. even picture s I got goose bumps when I heard the music. I would love to be apart of the help sincerely sharon gagon
A brother of my GGG gf John H Parker, Alvin Parker had a son B G Parker. B G Parker was with the wagon train when they left Arkansas. This train split off from the group that was later killed. He went on to California where he raised a family. Some of his decendants still live there. We went by the Memorial on the 25th of July 2005. What a beautiful place. What a great job was done on the Memorial. Would love to hear from any of the Parkers who were on this wagon train. We came in to the site from Cedar City via the dirt road thru Pinto . An interesting drive.
I have have been L.D.S. all my life and have never been told about this.I"ve learned alot of things that is kept from the mormon people and I am shocked and have doubts now. I am still investigating and would like to learn more truth sincerely sharon gagon
July 26, 2005. Today, my wife and I made the short trip to Mountain Meadow. This was something I had wanted to do after we moved from California to Ivins on June of this year. I never felt a stronger need to pray...
I have for years heard about the MMM from my mother and grandmother,whose father took wagon trains across the emigrant trails and on the Morman trail, he came upon the sight after the massace and helped bury the dead. I thought not much of it until I read, how badly they had been mutilated. I understand better now why my family had made such a point of The MMM. s.m.
My grandparents are Howard and Norma Cooper of Magnolia mississippi my Father is Teryy Glenn Cooper Sr. he has a twin sister named Sherry and a brother named Rusty. If you are related to the Coopers of Magnolia Mississippi please let me know I have been trying to trace my roots, any information will be a great help. Thank you, Terry Jr.
I have recently been put in touch with a 99 year old relative,Leonard Barnes, in the states. His grandmother and my g.grandfather were brother & sister & born in America.Their father William was laying railway lines in 1850's.Leonard tells me that our g.g grandparents Jane & William joined the wagon train at the last minute with their very young children Thomas,Rebecca & Ann. The parents were killed, and the children rescued. They eventually arrived back in Wales about 1861,but we don't know how.This story makes me shiver, poor people, travelling with such high hopes for a better futer. God be with them.
I visited the site July 11,05 and drove the road back toward Cedar City.
I recently was told about this terrible event that is part of my family history. I'm thankful for you web site of information so that I and my two children can know their family.
Would like info about up coming meeting in Sept.in St. George.We have never been before and are excited to join in. Thank you.
In my four trips to the beautiful State of Utah, looking for information about Butch Cassidy, I begin to see more and more about the terrible event, known as the Mountain Meadow Massacre. I now am trying to learn all I can about this tradegy, A regret I have, is in four trips to Utah, with numerous visits to St. George and Cedar City, I never visited the Meadow site. If I return, I will correct this. Thank you.
James Pinkney Springs Beller is my Great Great Grandfather. The picture of his family with William Greenwood Garland and Mary Levina Beller Garland on the link to the Beller Family. My Grandmother was the Daughter of William and Mary Garland.
while talking to my father, leland, about the series now showing on tv, "into the west". he mentioned this massacre. he told me about it, and i did a google search. i am quite enjoying the site. i am still reading. my heart goes out, to the families involved, and forgiveness is the answer, to p e a c e
I've read the books describing the massacre, I've seen the film, I've visited the site twice.... and I still am puzzled how this event is virtually unknown to the majority of the people in our country. Anyone who takes the time to read through how this tragedy unfolded will be horrified by the brutality... multiplied by the fact these acts were committed by men considered to be highly religious.
John T Baker was my great great great grandfather
Yes, I am a descendant of John D. Lee. I feel no anger or hatred towards him. I was not there. I do not pretend to understand the time period and events that led to the Mountain Meadow Massacre. I am appalled that there is so much closed mindedness and quick judgment from those who purport to have “studied” these events to condemn Mormons to this day. History is not one sided. Your demands to know the truth and suggestions that there is “cover up” by the Mormons is juvenile. Anyone who has studied the history of “Mormonism,” as society like to call it will soon discover that there are more anti-Mormon books and journals than those that support the faith. Why, because of bigotry of those who never tried to understand and the pride of those who knew, and left with a thirst for unfounded vengeance.
I wish to thank those that keep this site up. It is a valuable service in preserving the truth. I am a member of the LDS church in good standing and have come to terms with Mountain Meadows. It affected my family for generations. I encourage people to learn about this tragedy, as it is so often forgotten and swept under the rug. I must comment on Blood of the Prophets. I read a post on this site comending Bagley for his sources, one of which was folklore. Bagley cited folklore that supported his argument but dismissed folklore that didn't support it.
I've been meaning to post this for some time now. It never ceases to amaze me, that when one comes to a site that's stated mission is to promote peace, education, understanding and forgivness, one finds anti-Mormon pablum. It's depressing that there are those who use this forum, dedicated to the remberance of a horrific event in American history, as a means of spreading their religious bigotry. We're not even talking subtle calls for inquiry into what occured, we're talking about flat out bigotry. Words like "Cult" frequently spring up, and the necessity of all Mormons to repent for simply being Mormon. Uninformed and ignorant statements regarding the Mormon church's Svengali-like control over its members today are also found. Some are much worse in tone and content. These persons pronounce judgment in vitriolic bile upon those of us currently living for what happened at Mountain Meadows, and demand that we are held accountable for what occured. Essentially placing the sins of the fathers upon the heads of the present generation. I know of no genuine Latter-Day Saint who seeks to defend the actions of those who committed the murders on that terrible day. Simple humanity tells us that what occured can never be defended, nor should it ever be forgotten. Simple humanity, along with the lessons of history, also tells us that religious bigotry has never served to uplift the human condition or better society. In fact the same religious bigotry posted on this site, with its fear of the unknown, its prejudices, its thinly disguised hatred, is exactly what led to the tragedies at Mountain Meadows, at Hauns Mill, and at countless other sites across the globe made infamous by the conduct of those calling themselves "God-fearing." Those who raise the call against all Mormons, past and present as "Zealots" are no less zealous in their rush to find fault, assign blame, spread malicious lies and defame an entire group of people. People who live near them, hold respectable jobs, attend church, go to little league games with their kids, vote, fight for the nations they call home on the battlefield, and even lay down their lives to preserve the freedom that gives these ignorant few the right to defame them. Bottom line: Not all Mormons are nut jobs, nor are all non-Mormons bigoted, ignorant hate mongers. Surly there's a lesson there somewhere.
Thank you for maintaining this informative site on this important and tragic event.
My ancestors were pioneers of Paragonah, Utah and were force to go to Parowan because of Indian Uprisings in 1854. Just recently I have become obsessed with the Mountain Meadows Massacre, I have been reading various accounts of the Massacre. This summer I hope to go to the site. I have not found direct evidence that my ancestors were involved.
I found this site to be very intresting. This was an awful brutal event in the history our young nation. The hearts of me and my family go out to the family memebers of the ill-fate journey.
I viewed this website as part of an Arkansas History class that I'm taking. Very interesting
I just heard about this Killing by members of the church and under the authority of the church. It was on the history channel on June 19th, 2005. As a member of the LDS church, I can no longer attend in good faith. I want the truth.
I am so deeply moved by the tragedy at Mountain Meadows that I plan to take a trip there to see the site soon.Their story should never be forgotten and it it should be part of all school History books and the site should be made a Federal landmark and protected by the Government and not by the church of the LDS.
wow. what a great web site. My donation is in the mail. My prayers are with all of you family members of this tragic event. I've studied Mormonism most of my life and this stands as a "silent testamony" of its decpeption and darkness.
Like many other readers, I learned of this via the History channel. I am amazed that I have never heard of this event considering I grew up in Southern Idaho. I went to a public school but most of my fellow students were members of the LDS church. The details of the massacre of an Oregon Trail wagon train in an area now known as Massacre Rock in southern Idaho (near present day American Falls along I-86) were covered in school but the Mountain Meadows massacre was never mentioned. As a side note, the massacre in s. Idaho was blamed on the Indians (possibly the Shoshoni), but now I am beginning to wonder. There are other reports of wagon trains being harassed along both the north and south trails that probably deserve a closer look as well. A wonderful web site - very informative - keep up the great work.
wonderful web site!!
The meadows mention caught my attention. What a sad story this was. This history pained me when you realize the truth came out and how a religous group was led by deception, greed, mind control and murder all in the name of GOD. I do genealogy and this must be a shocking find to have this in a persons familytree. To the descendants and relatives of the wagon train, if we could go back in time, I wish they had taken another route to California.
Georgia Ann Dunlap age 18 months at the time of the attack is my Great-greatgrandmother on my mothers side of the family. I am probably listed already in connection with the survivors. I would like to get a historical marker of some kind at her grave site in Dallas at Oakland Cemetery. If you have any adice or available markers (already designed for those that were not slaughtered) please let me know someday. Jack Palmer ronaldjack@yahoo.com 972-672-6973
Names of the 'assassins' that participated in the, “Mountain Meadows Massacre.” 1. George Adair, Jr 2. Benjamin Arthur 3. Ira Allen (Member of High Council of Church and City.) 4. William Bateman (Carrier of Flag of Truce.) 5. John W. Clark (Lived at Washington, Utah.) 6. Thomas Cartwright (Lived at Cedar City. Member City Council.) 7. E. Curtis (Captain of “10.” Cedar City.) 8. Joseph Clews (Then of Cedar, now at Los Angelos, California.) 9. Jabez Durfey (of Cedar City.) 10. __?__ Edwards (of Cedar City.) 11. Columbus Freeman (Then of Cedar City, now at Corn Creek, Utah.) 12. John M. Higbee (1st Counselor to Isaac C. Haight, and Major of Iron Militia. 'In command at massacre.') 13. Oscar Hamblin 14. Charles Hopkins 15. William Hawley (Now residing in Fillmore, Utah Territory.) 16. John Hawley (Died in Indian Nation.) 17. Richard Harrison (of Pinto, Utah. Member of High Council of Church.) 18. George Hunter (of Cedar City.) 19. John Humphreys (of Cedar City.) 20. Samuel Jukes (of Cedar City.) 21. Nephi Johnson (of Cedar City. Indian Interpreter.) 22. Swen Jacobs (of Cedar City.) 23. John Jacobs (of Cedar City.) 24. Philip Klingensmith (Bishop of Church at Cedar City.) 25. Samuel Knight (of Cedar City.) 26. __?__ Knight 27. Dudley Leavitt (of Cedar City.) 28. A. Loveridge (of Cedar City.) 29. Daniel McFarland (of Cedar City. Son-in-law of Isaac C. Haight, and acting Adjutant at time of massacre.) 30. John McFarland (Attorney at Law, St. George, Utah.) 31. James Matthews 32. John Mangum (of Cedar City.) 33. Samuel McMurdy (of Cedar City. 1st Counselor to Bishop Klingensmith. Assisted in killing the wounded.) 34. James Pearce (of Washington, Utah.) 35. Harrison Pearce (of Washington, Utah.) 36. Samuel Pollock (of Cedar City.) 37. Dan C. Shirts (of Harmony, now of Potato Valley, Utah. Son-in-law of John D. Lee, and Indian Interpreter.) 38. William Slade, Sr. (of Cedar City.) 39. William Slade, Jr. (of Cedar City.) 40. William C. Stewart (of Cedar City.) 41. Joseph Smith (of Cedar City.) 42. Arthur Stratton (of Virgin City.) 43. __?__ Tate (of Cedar City.) 44. John Ure (of Cedar City.) 45. Pinkley Weaver (of Cedar City.)(Read the book by Steven E. Farley) 46. Dallas Weaver (of Cedar City. Killed at the massacre on Sept. 10th, 1857. Brother of Pinkley Weaver.) (Read the book by Steven E. Farley) 47. Joel White (of Cedar City.) 48. Samuel White (of Cedar City.) 49. Robert Wiley (of Cedar City.) 50. Elliott Wilden (of Cedar City.) 51. Alexander Wilden (of Cedar City.) 52. John Weston (of Cedar City.) 53. William Young (of Washington, Utah.) 54. John D. Lee (of Harmony, Utah. Executed March 23, 1877.) ***** There were over 62 (Mormon) men present at the time of the Massacre. ***** Bishop Jacob Hamblin, was not at the massacre as planned, as he was leading another wagon train away from the Fancher train at the time of the massacre. He and Bishop Dame worked out the details of the soon to be infamous Massacre on the orders of, ______?______?_______. William H. Dame, Bishop of the Church at Parowan, Colonel of the Iron Military District, and first man in authority in Southern Utah. He gave orders to Isaac C. Haight to have the emigrants exterminated, and did not deny the same when accused of it by Haight on the field after the massacre, while examining the dead bodies. Isaac C. Haight, President of that “State of Zion” at Cedar City, Utah Territory, Lieutenant Colonel of the Iron Military District – the man who directed Lee to see that the emigrants were exterminated. George A. Smith, One of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Saints, who preached a crusade against all who were opposed to the Mormon Church, through the settlements in Southern, Utah, immediately before the Massacre. "If anyone having more information or names, Please eMail me!" **Some of the names are from the list of, John D. Lee, at his Trial.**
We are just getting interested in this terrible event & are trying to find out about relatives that were killed in the massacre. I am thankful for this site and for the memorial.
I first heard of this massacre afew years ago while watching a PBS program on the LDS. Today, 4.10.05, I finally made to the site. Hopfully I can make it back out during the summer. I just wish that the LDS can come clean with the truth.
I am heartened to see the memory is kept alive.
It is good for the descendants on both sides to remember this historic and interesting event. The massacre was carried out by a small number of Mormons and no descendant of the Lee's or anyone else bears any blame. No one is accountable for anything their ancestors did. For example, I am not to blame because I had ancestors that owned slaves but this should be remember as a part of our history.
I had an uncle, by marriage, whose grandmother was supposed to be one of the surviving children of the MMM. His name was Hoover Anderson and his mother's maiden name was Ellis. His father was David Anderson. His mother did come from Missouri. I would like to know which of the surviving children was his grandmother. If the Mormon Church really wants the truth to be out, they would stop trying to cover up this heinous crime.
Thanks for true story!!!
looking forward tobeing at mountan medow reinactment next year
Hi, my husband and family have lived in Cedar City Utah (transferred fr Nevada) for the last 6 years. I've always had this sense of being "out of place" in this sometimes secretive and often strange Mormon world of southern Utah. After reading "The Wedding Dress" and Sally Denton's book: "American Massacre", I begin to grasp some of the reasons why. I did not understand when a fellow neighbor who was highly respected in the community, suddenly uprooted his family and left his thriving businesses to move out of state. This perplexity came even after talking with him for over an hour as he explained he had documentation that one of his ancestors was one of those ordered to destroy the Francher party at Mt Meadows. He further explained that he had been lied to all his life that the church - Brigham Young did not order this, but he had proof that he did. He had asked to be taken off the members list as a Mormon and was moving out of state. He was in total despair over the facts he found and the utter disillusionment of being lied to in such a controlling way as his church leaders had through out the last 150 years. As a devout born again Christian I encouraged him to search even further to find out if the lies taught him went even further to the inception of his now tattered beliefs. He later wrote an article that appeared on his web site that denounced the current LDS church letters as liars, evil inhuman beings and "shape-shifter charlatans". The last part of his message was what in my mind gave his whole story a little bit of a raised eyebrow "is he all there in his mind", but I still wondered for the last 4 years about his proof of the direct linkage to Bringham Young. Now I understand so much of the why's behind the story. Do you know that they teach the children in school that it was the Indians who did this along with a few "mis-guided" Mormons who were excommunicated. I have friend whose daughter was recently assigned to report on the Massacre. Morgan had read "The Wedding Dress", that I gave her and had a few facts that didn't appear in her Utah History Book. When she prepared her report using outside sources and the truth -her teacher made her re-write the story ONLY using the Middle School's library books (2) or the Utah History book. All 3 sources gave the "Mormon" let's pretend it didn't happen version. She told her teacher, when she turned it in, I know the truth and it's not what you made me write here. I have to tell you that I fully understand forgiveness, since I was forgiven so much by my Lord and Savior, but I also understand that being forgiven does not mean that we forget. Forgetting, would allow us the un-merited right to repeat the offense in some way. Living in Southern Utah, Cedar City, the events that took place in September 1857 are only remembered here as a white washed subdued version of the truth. The pride among my Mormon neighbors is indescribable. I understand from others that this pride of who they are as a Mormon and descendants of the "pioneers" (which they teach in school ONLY about Mormon pioneers), is extremely prevalent among those living in Southern Utah. The air that surrounds most of them has a strangely oppressive effect on those "outside". In light of this pride to I felt a twinge of shock and sadness to see the photos and read the stories of the "LDS church" partnership in the current Memorials. Please understand that the air of superiority and the air of the church is not to be questioned only followed still exists here. You are not being treated fairly on the events that took place as it's represented to the Ancestors of those that perpetrated this awful act. Does it matter, oh YES, those dear young souls that suffered so on that once beautiful meadow, stands as a reminder of Man's inhumanity against man. It may or may not ever happen the same way, but as one who lives among them, now that it happens in other quieter, scheming ways. The truth of the past must be shouted to those that have blindly followed someone they've put into authority. I've seen so many correlations between the Jim Jones, Waaco incidents, not to mention the 911 tragedy and the way my neighbors follow blindly (I don't say this factiously, I've gently asked lots of simple questions of reason and origin of their belief and everyone has either given me the pat answer - that doesn't make sense or they have no answer at all). My heart aches for these people, but I also now understand this oppression that exists here. I plan on driving by myself to the Meadow next week and I bring flowers to lay upon the graves of those dear souls and I will spend time in prayer that the Lord will open the door to show the truth to my neighbors and I will shed some tears and I'll never forget what happened at Mountain Meadows that day when Satan came in like a roaring lion and tried to destroy those God fearing Saints using the disguise of religion. I'll remember because their story will not be kept silent, their blood that soaked that ground will not have been shed in vain. Like the Christian Saints of old, they will not have died in vain and their story will go on, even if only from one person who believes in truth - I will share in love, but I will share. God bless you. In Christ's name, Cindy
...found out about your site on an Arkansas myfamily.com site. This was a very sad & tragic event. I used to live in Utah, and had never ever heard of this event. I also learned of the Hildale-Colorado City tragedy too. A couple of my former bussiness associates live over in Hildale. I was really saddened by that event & now to learn of this one too. You have a very nice site & it is very informative. I am glad that all parties were invited & encouraged to participate. Thank you for allowing us to learn of this event.....
I am doing a report on this for my history class. I have heard of it before but never really understood it. I would just like to say sorry to the famlies who were part of this great tragedy.
Very good site. Surprised that no mention of Will Bagley's award winning book, "Blood of the Prophets Brigham Young & the Massacre at Mountain Meadows" was not listed or referred to. I would say his is the most up-to-date & current of all books, papers, & treatise on the subject. His resources are impecable. Great U.S. History. Keep the site un-biased & allow all sides a space.
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what a lovely site with informative characters of thought i am happy that i visited hoping to call again naija guys please take note.
Basham, Mashburn, from Arkansas great site
I saw this story on the History channel and was shocked. Such a sad and at the same time maddening thing that it has entered my dreams, or should I say nightmares. My grandfather was born a Morman in Pioche Nevada but I am very glad to say he was not a devoted one. I would bet that very few Americans know of this tragedy. Please keep this story before the public as a lesson to all of us, and especially to those who now think they are the only ones that have been poorly by treated by society.
Very interesting. A History Channel story about the Massacre piqued my interest in this tragedy and I am curious to know more about it. I plan to read Josiah F. Gibbs account I found at http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/meadowscontents.htm Thank you. This is a very nice site.
Visited site 2-16-2005 It was a calm, cool, cloudy day. I was the only visitor which made the visit more meaningful. I believe what needs to be added to the Cairn is a cross with the words the Army inscribed on it. Also, until the church acknowledges that Brigham Young gave the orders,
I recently saw the History Channel presentation of the Mountain Meadow Massacre story. I was not aware of this tragic event in our country's history. Thank you for an informative and well-presented web-site.
My granddaddy, Elisha Thomas Dunlap settled in Indian Territory and my Dad, James Dorse Dunlap and three brothers and one sister were born in Red Oak (Vinita) I.T. James Dorse Dunlap was born in Feb(?) 1896, the youngest brother, and then Ola was born later. I had a brother, James Martin Dorse Dunlap (b. Apr 22, 1933, Stillwater, OK) and he has traced his family back to a Jesse Dunlap (Elisha's father or grandfather) .... but the trail (i've heard) is lost from there because .... (HERE'S AN UNUSUAL TWIST), Jesse, I believe, was born when on shipboard from Scotland, so, there is no record of his birth in Scotland, and the ship's manifest cannot be found, so his arrival in USA is undetermined.......... Can anyone help me? RedOak, I.T. is awfully close to Arkansas. I've read several books about MMM, and would like to know more. Thank you for taking time to read this message, I am, Evertt Thomas Dunlap, b. 10 APR 1934, Okmulgee, OK (parents = James Dorse Dunlap and Louise Agnes Martin-Wyckoff Dunlap.
Thankyou for your site. It is important that we seek answers to why things such as this happen. In my opinion, Brigham Young is no different than Jim Jones or David Koresh. He was just more successful. I do have a very good friend that is a Morman and I couldn't think higher of a person.(We don't discuss religion) Before we can forget,forgive or accept the past, someone has to take responsibility. We can't pick only the parts we choose to obey from the bible. We can't steal, commit adultery, and murder those different from us in the name of religion. Yet, we still do today. We still haven't learned. I hope to visit the site someday. God be with those who died there and more important those that believe it was justified.
This just goes to show that for some reason, some of the greatest acts of cold-blooded murder is often times done so, in the name of religion. Whether It's Brigham Young ordering the Mormons to slaughter the innocents at Mountain Meadows; various Popes, Bishops and Cardinals through the centuries with the inquistions and crusades; the catholics and prodestants killing one another in Ireland; and the Muslims who hate everyone and everything, and will kill with their version of terrorist delight. Yes, very sad how people of various faiths to a kind and loving God can not just kill, but butcher in the name of God. All I can say is that what a surprise for them when they stand before the Great White Throne.
i am also a cherokee decendent
THANK YOU FOR REMEMBERING OUR FAMILIES
looking for pictures of the mountain meadows site and surrounding area. please email me if you have any pictures that you would like to share or have copied. thank you
This story came to my attention just today as I watched it on the history channel. I am a mormon and have been baptised since 2001. There are many things about the church that I love, but I must admit that there are also many things that I find repulsive. For example all the coverups, manipulations and evil acts done by those who are suppose to be men of God. I believe that the Lord just wants us to love one another...not murder. Those immegrants were innocent and those men killed them in cold blood after they had given there trust. They were not coming to take over their community or try to change their lifestyle. They were just passing through trying to make a new life. I am ashamed of human nature and what people will do to each other. Acts and tales such as this make me wonder if there are any religions out there that is making a difference.
Thanks for being here. I needed information and site maps for an assignment for my history class at USU
History Channel program on the massacre: Investigating History Mountain Massacre. Tune In: Tuesday, February 8 @ 11pm ET/PT In 1857, the Fancher Wagon Train camped in the Utah Territory, and awoke to an attack by Paiute Indians. The pioneers defended their position for five days, until approached by Captain John D. Lee and his local Mormon militia, who promised protection if they surrendered their arms. Suddenly, a ghastly slaughter occurred. The Mormons saved 17 children, whom they later adopted, and divided the loot with their Paiute partners. They buried the dead at the Mountain Meadows site and an elaborate cover-up ensued. Some 20 years later, Lee was executed on the site for the crime--the only one punished. Then, in 1999, a backhoe operator unearthed a mass grave, and forensic anthropologist Shannon Novak made astonishing discoveries--until the governor (one of the murderers' descendant) ordered the bones reburied. But it was too late, the ghosts had spoken and a new story emerged, implicating religious authorities in the mass murder. TVPG V cc
My grandmother in lillian fancher i'm just starting to get involved in learning about my families past. I don't know if it was a great great relative (grandparent, aunt, uncle,)
Great Site. I have enjoyed studying the history of our early settlers to the west and the Mountain Meadows Massacre has been especially interesting with all the controversy that surrounds it. I am curious as since this is a grave site for a number of people with I am sure a few different religious affiliations why there is an exclusion of perhaps a Cross or a Masonic Symbol since this site is for their memory. I only ask since your group seems to be involved with the rededication of the site.
Thank you for this site!
I plan to visit Mountain Meadows in Sept.2007.
We all mourn the death of ferry Woman Author Gerald Grimmett who died tragically last Monday Morning in Red Cliffs Park area of Leeds Utah. I learned alot about "Americas First 9-11" from Gerald and paln to do a reading on video of the "Ferry Woman" America needs to know the truth of the tragedy I call. "Americas First 9-11" Gerald Grimmett will be missed
Ann Richardson: "Sallie" is a nickname for Sarah. Thanks for sharing the interesting story of your autographed handkerchief. It's a treasure.
Praise God my cousin found your website and shared it with us. We knew of the incident but not in details like this has been. How could anyone claim God sanctioned such horrible acts as they committed on that 911 day and the days following. Thank you for putting it together.
I inherited an autographed handkerchief collection from my grandmother. She had gotten the autograph of the "lone survivor of the Mt. Meadow Massacre", a Mrs. Sallie Baker Mitchell. I decided to search for information on this signature and got your site. I found a Sarah Baker, but not a Sallie Baker. I appreciate the information I got on the Mt. Meadow Massacre.
For those interested in seeing Brian Patrick's documentary, Burying the Past: Legacy of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, shown on PBS, please see his letter at: http://www.utlm.org/brianpatrickletter.htm Thanks, Bob
Well popular culture via the movies always presented the dangers of the west as being "the Indian" but I now see it was the Wild Morman we should fear.... Not too much record of crazy non secular types out in the west terrorizing wagon trains and immigrants. This little peice of history should be brought up everytime the missionaries drop by for a visit. Hey its like Nazi's coming for a visit? Come on LDS and owe up to some of the other uglier parts of your history and quit acting like you were always the victims. Remember God... oh I forgot for you "cultists" Heavenly Father owns history... not the Church. To hide and deny is only to lie! God is love and truth, if you are spouting off anything else its something else than what you claim... that is if you mean to be honest?
Would like to visit soon
Around and above this grave I caused to be built of loose granite stones, hauled from the neighboring hills, a rude monument, conical in form and fifty feet in circumference at the base, and twelve feet in height. This is surmounted by a cross hewn from red cedar wood. From the ground to top of cross is twenty four feet. On the transverse part of the cross, facing towards the north, is an inscription carved in the wood. "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." And on a rude slab of granite set in the earth and leaning against the northern base of the monument there are cut the following words: "Here 120 men, women, and children were massacred in cold blood early in September, 1857 . They were from Arkansas." Brevet Major J. H. Carleton, U.S.A. May 25, 1859 ---------------------------------------------- May 25 [1861] A very cold morning much ice on the creek. I wore my great coat & mittens. We visited the Mt. Meadows Monument not up at the burial place of 120 persons killed by Indians in 1857. The pile of stone was about twelve feet high but beginning to tumble down. A wooden cross is placed on top with the following words, Vengeance is mine and I will repay saith the Lord. Pres. Young said it should be Vengeance is mine and I have taken a little. (The Mountain Meadows Massacre, by Juanita Brooks, University of Oklahoma, p. 182). ---------------------------------------------- Romans 12:19 ...for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. ---------------------------------------------- Mormon 3:15 Vengeance is mine, and I will repay; and because this people repented not after I had delivered them, behold, they shall be cut off from the face of the earth.
God will make the final judgement.
In his post on Jan. 04, 2005, Charles Walch forgot to include those that out of ignorance, prejudice or malice, heap slander upon an innocent people for the crime of a few. But I don't ask God to punish these or anybody else. God in His wisdom and justice, far above human's, will deal with each appropriately without any help from us. What I humbly do ask God is for Him to enlighten us all, so that we can realize that only those physically present at the event really know what happened and why, and the rest is speculation.
Perhaps Mr. Stewart is referring to Cove Fort, about 5 miles south of Corn Creek and 20 miles north of Beaver, just off I-15. The emigrant train camped at Corn Creek where they also bought corn from Kanosh. If I recall correctly, this is where George Albert Smith camped 40 yards from the doomed party.
May God punish those who did those terrible things. And May God punish those who proclaim false innocence of those who are guilty.
Thank you for posting this information. My relatives are from Johnson and Newton County, Arkansas and we've long believed that a few of them were lost in this tragedy. With some notable exceptions, the Hamiltons, Hudson, and Bashams were poor families in this area and often intermarried.
For Mr. Stewart: The Mountain Meadows Memorial site has no "Fort." There are two separate monuments erected there in the Meadows in rememberance of the several Arkansas emigrant trains that were massacred there on their way to California, but there has never been a Fort. I think you must have visited something else. We hope you will have an opportunity to come by to visit in the future, and you can find a map to the area on our website. Thank you for your comments and taking the time to share them. Lynnmarie Fancher, Secretary MMA
I viewed a TV program on the History Channel about the Massacre, and was trying to find out if this was a place my wife and I visited on an automobile trip last year. The "Fort" was just off an Interstate and was operated by Mormons. I really didn't know the Mormons had such a violent past. I thought they were somewhat like the Amish. Guess I was wrong in that assumption.
Hello, I`m from Poland. The site is very good. I`ve found a lot of information about Beller`s family. I live in south-west part of Poland (small town called Polkowice). I would like to know that my family in Poland is the part of German`s family. If You know somethink about it please write to me. Magda Beller
